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MyshMash
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 04:33 pm |
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I can't think of any examples at the top of my head at the moment, but I have read books that tell me different things on the same subject. This confuses me because I'm new to palmistry and don't know what to believe.
How do you deal with contradictory information that some palmistry books give you?
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Sue Compton
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 09:32 pm |
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Hi Myshmash
My advice would be to look again, or perhaps write down exactly what each palmistry book is stating, and then look to see if you can see a common thread. Many times, a palmist will offer their own perspective in their interpretation of a hand feature, which will have exactly the same underlying basis, but will be dressed slightly differently.
There are palmistry books where, instead of offering an interpretation, the author offers advice based on his knowledge of the interpretation. Again, this will demonstrate the author' s own perspective, which isn't really that helpful if you are seriously trying to learn how to interpret hand features. These books are more for the person who wishes to check in their hands and look up specific features for instant readings.
So, I would definitely suggest writing down and comparing each author's words, and looking for ways in which the various interpretations might link together.
But it is worth remembering that some palmistry authors, or some books, can be a little suspect, so if you find a book that appears to totally differ from all the others in one or more interpretations, then it might be worth putting that book down, and read another instead!
Sue 
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hand_research
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 10:54 pm |
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Hello MyshMash,
Thank you for bringing up this topic - which will be recognized and confirmed by any person who has red and studied a large number of books.
Hopefully you are willing to share your 'contradiction' with us here at the forum!?
I you would like to share the details, I think that you will receive valuable feedback from several members of this forum!
And therefore my question is:
MyshMash, what 'contradiction' have you exactly observed in your books?
(will you please, mention the author of the books, since this might give us a clue about the causes and nature of your discovery)
PS. Susan -  thanks for your quick response.
Last edited on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 09:17 am by hand_research
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Den
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 02:24 am |
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Hi guys,
I can probably relate more to MyshMash than some of you guys that have been doing this a while, because we are at the same level of study. I have about seven or eight books from Benham,Cheiro, Roz Levine, Lori Reid and the " Little Book of Palmistry" as examples. There is a common thread with all these authors, but the timing of events via the 4 major lines does differ somewhat from author to author and I am resigned to only "guesstimate" as to the event timelines. I am often amazed at guys on this forum like GM who seem to effortlessly time out events down to the year and have it confirmed by the person requesting the reading. Must be nice.
My first real study on the art was Benham, and was very confused when people started mentioning earth, fire, water, and air on the forum. I now have broadened my study to other authors and trying to find my own style, and like Myshmash, want to simply do a good job when doing a reading. People rarely talk about the apex of mounts to classify subjects and there is some speculation on things like "lines of affection" that are of exteme interest to many inquires on the site because of people's obsession with finding a soulmate. Additonally, people often want fortune tellers instead of character readers which makes for a difficult time in answering many questions that are posted. I agree with Sue when she stresses the fundamentals as pertaining to finger length, nature of the major lines,...etc. Much of the "meat" of hand reading like color, nails, and consistency are impossible at times to determine because we are not holding hands with our subjects. Despite all that, I think folks get a pretty darn good reading for the internet. If I perform a "weird" analysis, please send me a PM. Thanks for listening.
Regards,
Den
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MyshMash
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 09:31 am |
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Thanks everyone for your replies.
Sue, thanks for your advice. I have already found some books to be a bit lighthearted about the subject. I've got one book that focusses on female readers so they can look at the hands of men at a bar or something and tell if they would be suitable for them . I've already stopped reading that.
Den, the affection lines are a great example of what I'm talking about. I haven't got the specific books with me at the moment but I think it's 'Palmistry for Today' that says they're an indication of how many kids you'll have and if they'll be a boy or girl. In 'Palmistry, from Apprentice to Pro in 24 hours' the chapter about affection lines begins with stating that those assumptions are ridiculous.
I think I'll just have to practise and find out for myself which of the books are more accurate. Trial and Error...
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Lynn
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 09:33 am |
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hi
Sue & Martijn have already said things I was going to say in my reply to you. :-)
I said a while back on another thread "At first it seems conflicting but when you take it down to the basic principles, which is what elemental hand reading taught me, then it all makes sense."
maybe not all,,,,, as Sue said some books are suspect and seem to make up their own interpretations!!
Remember that there are very few things on the hand that have one specific meaning taken in isolation, everything has to be read in conjunction with everything else.
as Martijn said, it would help if we can discuss a specific example of contradiction, and if you tell us which books you are reading.
Den, I agree that timing of lines varies in different books, I also "guesstimate" :-)
(edit) - Mish we were writing at the same time! I agree with JOhnny Fincham on affection lines - they do not predict the number of "marriages" and the child lines are also not reliable re number or gender of children.
Lynn
Last edited on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 09:36 am by Lynn
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MyshMash
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 09:53 am |
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I'm not at home at the moment, but when I get home I'll post some more specific examples and titles of books.
Thanks everyone
Edit: I just thought of another example hehe.
In Johnny Fincham's book he says that elementary hand reading is not accurate enough. There are only so many people that actually fit the description of a, let's say, water hand exactly and is there for not worth learning. But in another (older book) from him he explains them in a seperate chapter.'
It's just little things like that that confuse me sometimes. Maybe if I'm more experienced I can decide for myself what I think is accurate and what not...
Last edited on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 10:04 am by MyshMash
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Sue Compton
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 01:46 pm |
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Hi Myshmash
I agree with Johnny in that some hands perfectly fit into one of the elemental systems while others are mixed. So if a hand fitted perfectly into one or another then you could happily use the elemental interpretation. I don't agree that any particular type should be ignored, because ALL of them are useful in helping to assess a hand.
But if a hand does NOT fit into one of these types, then you need something else to fall back on. You have to remember that hand classification systems are merely a combination of individual hand features which frequently, or conveniently if you like, combine together to create a more or less specific personality type. So when in doubt, you could, for example, analyse the individual hand features one by one, and still come to a conclusion about the personality type.
Or you could use one of the other hand classification systems, especially if the hand appears to fit rather conveniently into it. If a hand is conic, with an elastic consistency, it might fit Brandon Jones 'lively' type. But if the hand is conic, fuller, and with a softer consistency, it might fit the sensual type. Knotty, bony fingers with a slightly elongated hand might cause you to consider the philosophical type, but looking into the palm, you might find the element has an air quality about it. So you can mix and match up two systems together. Each has its merits and will help you to further understand how to interpret what you are seeing.
Many people, and I was like this in the beginning, believe that a particular system is important and that there is some kind of magical formula for fitting a hand into one or another. But some hands defy categorising in this manner, and fall more easily into another classification system.
For me then, I always mix and match, combine and modify, bearing in mind individual features, which are the basis on which all the classification systems are built.
Sue
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Lynn
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 04:19 pm |
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Mysh-mash said - "In Johnny Fincham's book he says that elementary hand reading is not accurate enough. There are only so many people that actually fit the description of a, let's say, water hand exactly and is there for not worth learning."
Sue said - "I agree with Johnny in that some hands perfectly fit into one of the elemental systems while others are mixed. So if a hand fitted perfectly into one or another then you could happily use the elemental interpretation. I don't agree that any particular type should be ignored, because ALL of them are useful in helping to assess a hand."
I guess Mish is talking about page 12 of "Palmistry - Apprentice to pro in 24 hours". Just to point out that Johnny doesn't mention the element (fire, water etc) system of hand classification there. His diagrams are from D'Arpentigny's system which contains elementary hand but not elemental hand shapes ;-) He says "This simplistic practise does not give accurate results". He doesn't say it is not worth learning, he says "As a tool for personality divination we can safely ignore the palm shape."
D'Arpentigny's sytem, which many palmists still reproduce in articles & books, was only designed for the hands of men, and is not about pure hand shape, it takes into account the fingertips & knuckles also, which is why most people end up in the "mixed" category. The elemental system is just about palm shape and long or short fingers. I personally find that system much easier, and (for once I disagree with Sue, doesn't often happen! ;-) ) I think all hands can be classified via the elemental shapes if you take into account the combinations eg fire/water, fire/air etc hands. However you have to measure accurately and it is easy to make mistakes. As Sue suggests, try the different systems and see which one - or mixture of systems- you find you can happily work with to give accurate results.
Hand shape is just a general indication of how we express our energy out into the world. Most hand shapes (80%) in western society have some fire, as that is how we live - busy, active etc. In India for example you see more water element hands, in rural Turkey more earth hands. So hand shape is useful but very general.
As I understand it, Johnny left hand shape out of his 2nd book as many people find hand shape difficult, get it wrong, and fall at the first hurdle (it is usually the first chapter of palmistry books). This book is for beginners to learn palmistry easily, to encourage people to get interested in hands. As he says, it is safe to ignore hand shape and mounts (another feature people agonise over) and move swiftly on to more useful assessment of other parts of the hand. You can always learn hand shapes later.
Last edited on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 04:26 pm by Lynn
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Sue Compton
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 04:46 pm |
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Hi Lynn
The elemental system is just about palm shape and long or short fingers. I personally find that system much easier, and (for once I disagree with Sue, doesn't often happen! ;-) )
If you are disagreeing with me, it isn't going to be today!!! We most definitely agree on this! You went on to say -
I think all hands can be classified via the elemental shapes if you take into account the combinations eg fire/water, fire/air etc hands.
And here is the crucial point - if you take into account the combinations eg fire/water, fire/air, etc.
Combinations, combinations, combinations.........
So often you see combinations between the elements, like a water shaped hands with fire lines, or similar. To attempt to categorise a hand like this into just one element by the shape alone would be missing half the picture. When I was talking about the classification systems, I meant ALL of them. I mix and match whatever I can see to allow me to get the clearest picture possible, whether it be D'Arpentigny's system, Brandon Jones, Benham's mounts, the elemental system or whatever.
I think the problem with learning about these systems is as you say, that they often appear at the beginning of a palmistry book, and you are left wondering exactly what elements form the basis of any hand type. But I feel the most important aspect is to consider how individual features are actually what make up the hand types, apart from the elemental system, but even this, with the short fingers for impatience and the long fingers for patience and detail, texture and so on, takes individual features into account.
Sue
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Lynn
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 05:17 pm |
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Sue, just to clarify what I meant by combinations... I am just talking about combination elements in hand shape alone.
In explaining I fear I will complicate matters ...  but here goes.....
For example a hand that appears to be basically fire shape (rectangular palm, short fingers) but is slightly narrower than standard fire palm, and slightly longer fingers, would be a fire/water hand.
Your example of water shaped hands with fire lines, would be a water shape hand!
It might have a fire quality water line, air fingerprints, watery air line, etc ad infinitum of elemental combinations in the other hand features, but it would still be a simply a water shape hand. :-)
I agree you can mix & match the systems. For example, one earth shaped hand might appear to have more 'elementary' features of D'Arpentigny's system whereas another earth hand may seem more "square".
heh, heh,,,,Mish aren't you glad you asked about hand shape 
Last edited on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 05:19 pm by Lynn
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Sue Compton
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 07:24 pm |
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Yes, I understand what you are saying here Lynn. I use exactly the same methods as you!
For example a hand that appears to be basically fire shape (rectangular palm, short fingers) but is slightly narrower than standard fire palm, and slightly longer fingers, would be a fire/water hand. Your example of water shaped hands with fire lines, would be a water shape hand!
It might have a fire quality water line, air fingerprints, watery air line, etc ad infinitum of elemental combinations in the other hand features, but it would still be a simply a water shape hand. :-)
But at the end of the day, even though it might be just the basic shape used to define the elemental shape, from slightly longer or shorter fingers, longer/shorter palm, rectangular/square palm or whatever, you will still be left with a framework from which you will build after combining all other elements of the hand, whether that be through the actual 'elements' themselves, or other 'elements'/hand features, so to speak!!
I think that no matter what classification system is used, everything comes into play through combining, refining, and modifying the hand features themselves. A classification system is, after all, merely a basic framework from which can be developed and built upon.
Sue
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Lynn
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 08:09 pm |
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Yes Sue, I agree 
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hand_research
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Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 09:56 am |
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...
Thank you Lynn and Sue 
(Please, don't forget that Mymash's one and only contradiction-example (so far) was focussed on the so-called 'affection lines')
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MyshMash
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 10:15 am |
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What about what hand to read and what they represent.
They say the left hand represents what you're born with and the right is what you do with it. Then some books say it's the opposite if you're left handed and other books say it's the same regardless what your dominant hand is.
What are your views on that?
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hand_research
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 01:43 pm |
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MyshMash wrote: What about what hand to read and what they represent.
They say the left hand represents what you're born with and the right is what you do with it. Then some books say it's the opposite if you're left handed and other books say it's the same regardless what your dominant hand is.
What are your views on that?
Hello MyshMash,
That's an excellent topic to continue this discussion!
I think it doesn't make much sense to 'read the other hand' when somebody is left-handed.
In quite a few books, this STRATEGY seems to be build on the ASSUMPTION that in left-handed people the brains work fundamentally different compared to the brain of right-handed people... (?)
However, this ASSUMPTION is no longer supported by scientific research. And therefore I think that the STRATEGY 'to read the other hand' seems to be build on a simple believe/illusion.
Or maybe .... anyone knows a more sensible reason for practicing this STRATEGY???
By the way, I am left-handed myself.
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Den
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 07:49 pm |
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My wife is a lefty, should I tell her she is fundamentally different?
Might end up on the couch tonight for that one.
Thanks for all these cool hand research facts. Makes me feel educated.
Regards,
Den
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hand_research
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 10:09 pm |
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dwilson wrote: My wife is a lefty, should I tell her she is fundamentally different?
Might end up on the couch tonight for that one.
Thanks for all these cool hand research facts. Makes me feel educated.
Regards,
Den
Hi Den,
If your wife is a lefty, my long-distance reading is:
... I dare to bet a few bucks on that most fingers of your wife's left hand are probably A BIT longer compared to the finger of her right hand
... and to make things a bit more exciting: the top phalange of her left index finger is probably MUCH longer than the top phalange of her right index finger.
Maybe you are able to take some advantage from this 'long-distance reading' on your couch!
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Lynn
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 11:06 pm |
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Martijn, this is interesting, although I'm not sure whether I correctly understood your reply about I think it doesn't make much sense to 'read the other hand' when somebody is left-handed.
Do you mean that the right still has 'dominance'? Or... Maybe I first need to ask you how you see the differences between the 'active' hand they use for writing etc and the 'passive' - or maybe you don't even use the 'passive/active terminology?
And how does it all work with regard to right brain controlling left hand and vice versa, are you saying that left handers are not more influenced by 'right brain' functions than right handers?
I have always used left as dominant / active hand if they are left handed. For example today a woman showed me her hands, she had more small lines on right hand (and in my experience people usually have more 'stress' lines on passive hand) so I knew before she told me that she was left handed. I guess maybe I also made some subconscious assessment of muscular development etc. I didn't know this about the index finger and top phalanx though.
What about what hand to read and what they represent.
They say the left hand represents what you're born with and the right is what you do with it. Then some books say it's the opposite if you're left handed and other books say it's the same regardless what your dominant hand is.
What are your views on that?
Hi Mish,
What I think about it is on my website http://www.handanalysis.co.uk/faq.htm although it is rather more complex than that, this is the simple version.
I'm wondering now if Martijn disagrees with the way I've always looked at it!! :-)
ggrrr I always make mistakes and have to edit!!
Last edited on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 11:07 pm by Lynn
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hand_research
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Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 12:45 am |
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Lynn wrote: Martijn, this is interesting, although I'm not sure whether I correctly understood your reply about I think it doesn't make much sense to 'read the other hand' when somebody is left-handed.
Do you mean that the right still has 'dominance'? Or... Maybe I first need to ask you how you see the differences between the 'active' hand they use for writing etc and the 'passive' - or maybe you don't even use the 'passive/active terminology?
And how does it all work with regard to right brain controlling left hand and vice versa, are you saying that left handers are not more influenced by 'right brain' functions than right handers?
I have always used left as dominant / active hand if they are left handed. For example today a woman showed me her hands, she had more small lines on right hand (and in my experience people usually have more 'stress' lines on passive hand) so I knew before she told me that she was left handed. I guess maybe I also made some subconscious assessment of muscular development etc.
Hi Lynn,
(I really like your questions!!)
Yes, I am not a fan of the STRATEGY to build a reading on one hand only, nor to make the active hand more important than the passive hand.
I will try to explain my 2 major arguments:
1) Yes indeed, the right brain is dominant for controlling the left hand (and vice versa). But for sure this doesn't implicate that the left brain has no control over the left hand!!! It is only a matter of 'weight'.
And yes, usually the passive hand shows more fine lines compared to the active hand. This is correct!!! (as far as I know: first described by Charlotte Wolff's research, and I found confirming evidence in my own dissertation study from a few years ago)
However ... does it make sense to say on top of this fact (!):
''The PASSIVE hand has more lines ... so let's take the ACTIVE hand to the start a Hand Reading!''
To me personally, this STRATEGY doesn't make sense at all!! (but I would not be surprised to hear that far most Hand Analysts have never considered this issue from this point of view ... the lines!)
Especially because - I think in ALL Hand Analysis systems - the lines are associatied with 'consciousness'!!!
2) My second argument is that I have never seen any (confirming) scientific results at all, saying something like this:
"...we found strong evidence related to the right hand, but no evidence at all related to the left hand"
What I am trying to say here is that for me it doesn't make sense at all to put more weight on one hand compared to the other hand.
In other words: I think it's a solid strategy 'to put equal weight' on both hands. And I think it make sense 'to put more weight' on hand features which are seen in both hands.
Last edited on Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 01:10 am by hand_research
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Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 12:53 am |
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